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I thought it would work. I thought he'd see the virtues of it. For a while, it did. It's funny. It didn't for the first two years, and then it seemed to work. But then when they disposed of Temple-Inland, and Grum went off, he didn't appoint an executive vice president. And I did say, “Dick, I don't understand why you don't do this. Because this is too much for you to handle.” I still don't understand it. Because he finally did, but what he did was to move Davidson out, really, and to make Nick president instead of executive vice president. In my view, he should have made Nick executive vice president three years earlier.
What was your--the day that you retired, and he became C.E.O., from that point on how much did you consult with him? Or did he--
Very little.
Did he ask for your advice?
No.
Did he pretty much cut you out of the picture? I mean, you were out of the pi--
Yes.
Did you remain on the board?
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