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Andrew Heiskell in New York City. As we're talking about all of these--if Luce was alive at the time, why won't you state what his views were. For example, the whole international expansion. Was he behind that?

Luce was always very cautious, strangely enough. Well, you can tell that he was cautious, because between the start of LIFE and the start of Sports Illustrated--1936--eighteen years.

No. Between--wait. Not LIFE.

He started LIFE in 1936 and Sports Illustrated in 1954.

Oh, yes. Excuse me. Go ahead.

it was eighteen years. So that tells you something. And he was cautious about going into the international field, sort of reluctant about that. He never wanted us to get into TV and we, therefore, got into TV late and were only able to get into secondary cities. Sure we made a very nice profit, those stations did, but it wasn't a business. It wasn't one that we really ran. It was like having five duchies with a duke in charge of each, and the duke didn't care about any other duke, and he just went his own way, and turned the profit over to us. Nearly like buying a guaranteed bond.

And I suppose--well, was he alive when we started our cable ventures? Yes, he was. Because we started our cable ventures in the 1960s. But they were so small, and he was less and less in the