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Yes, that was part of it. I think the lesson there is, when you're just acquiring a person, you've got to be very, very sure of who the person is. [laughs] Need I say more?

In other words, Time-LIFE Film was nothing compared to what ultimately was the rights-buying power of HBO--the pre-buying of films produced by other producers? Is that correct?

That's correct.

That's really the big way that Time Inc. was connected to the movie business.

Absolutely, absolutely. In fact, as I said, the movie business even felt that we were practically buying them out, that we had control over them. It didn't turn out to be true.

What about any highlights from what was Time-LIFE Books? Why won't you trace that and what comes to mind?

Well, I think I said earlier that we had done a few books that had been very successful, and I was being pressed to get into the book business. But I was still on LIFE then. Yes. That was pre-1960. And I said, “If we are going to do it, we've got to do it with somebody who knows the book business.” And indeed, we found this fellow, Jerry Hardy, who had been at Doubleday. And I gave him