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Well, they--given the fact that the act existed, and given the fact that it would be very bad P.R. for anybody to be responsible for the folding of The Star, the Post didn't say: “Oh, no, we won't talk to you.” They talked to us, and they talked to us, and they talked to us. And they set this condition, and they set that condition, and then they set that condition. And by the time they were through setting conditions, we'd been out of business for quite a while, and had we come back there was absolutely no future whatsoever to it. But they never said no.

Did you get involved in that?

No, I did not. Shepley.

Did you ever talk to Catherine Graham?

No.

During this whole period, did you--

No, I considered this to be Shepley's job, and let him sweat.

Were you sweating too?

Yes, but by that time most everything else was in fairly