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Wow.

No more than that, I don't think. I'm pretty sure. We were their captive in the sense that when--that we really financed their expansions as far as those expansions were directed at the printing of Time, LIFE, so on so on. We had long-term contracts with them; or when they built a plant in Old Saybrook, Connecticut, the term of the contract would always be such that they didn't take much risk. We were in effect putting our money. They were not experimental minded; they did very little research, and I think earlier we discussed why we got into the--and finally they did get into research. But they were a conservative outfit. Very conservative; very successful.

No other details about any particular problems that arose particular issues, or--

No, old T.E. was a churchman of the first order, and a very moral fellow. And I think he had some qualms about some of the things that appeared in our publications. His son, Gaylord[?], who ran the company for thirty years afterwards, didn't have those same qualms.

[end of side two: begin cassette 2, side 1]

Today is the 12th of February, 1987. We're at 870 U.N. Plaza. This is Jessica Holland for the Columbia Oral History Collection.