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What about any interesting relationships with anybody in the New York real estate world as a result of--you know, corporate relationships?

No, we became very close with--I guess we got a lot closer to the Rockefellers, and ended up by having a joint airline with them. They had a management for a small airline--I think they had three planes, or something like that. And they said: this management can handle 6 or 7 planes as well as 3, so we ended up by becoming part of their airline, in effect, which had great advantages in that we could borrow each other's planes, so on so on.

This was strictly for corporate use?

Strictly for corporate use--well, huh, in those days? [laughter] In those days, no.

Tell me where you went on those planes.

I went to Jamaica once on that plane.

What else?

I mean, on personal.

Yes.