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is very good--financial, not so much the investing aspect of finance but the control aspects of finance: using financial tools as control tools in directing, in organizing, in shaping the university. And of course, he looks to Henry [Rossovsky] for inside knowledge.

Okay. Let's go back to the overseers again. Who--were there any particularly disruptive overseers when you first got there?

Yes!

Who were they?

(sigh) I've forgotten their names.

[pause]. Okay. You can put them on the transcript if you'll recall them.

Yes. I'll try--I'll have to look back at the list of the Overseers.

Who were some of the people that you were responsible for bringing in? You know, that you had talked to the Alumni Committee about? You said there was--

Oh, it wasn't so much that--it wasn't that I was pointing at individuals. I was saying, “People such as”--classifications, categories, so on so on--