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socialist. At the time that I remember him, in and out of various things in New York, he never missed the opportunity to expound the socialist theory. If one talked about the stock yards, or if one talked about the Southern Pacific Railroad, or if one talked about anything - the latest garment strike or anything else - Upton Sinclair, almost becoming tiresome as he was a pretty tiresome, long-winded talker, would expound a socialist explanation of this episode. He didn't see it as drama, human life and human need. He saw it as an illustration of a political theory. That's my principal memory of him - that he was intrigued by the political theory and not really touched by human suffering. It was just theory about which he was concerned, which by the way had always seemed to me to be the quality that Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels both had. When you read anything that they had written, it was as though they never knew that there were human beings. Some of those things that Marx wrote when he worked for the Tribune in New York, are as though he didn't know that human beings existed and were human. I guess that's what's back of the pure emptiness of many of these purely political theories that don't develop out of an action to meet a situation. I think we always took an action to meet a situation in the social work and labor and social legislation fields. We proposed something to meet a situation, which we knew and