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Murphy, affecting Smith. I don't know anything about that, because it was not my sphere of responsibility. Flynn probably knows more about it. I'm inclined to think that it was Flynn and others who put the Presidential nomination into his head.

I remember the Democratic convention of 1924 very well. I was at it most of the time. Before that began I was only too aware of the fact that we were having a serious Smith-for-President campaign. During this period between 1920 and '24 there had been not only a great deal of talk, but a great deal of talk with the Governor and the others. My impression is that at no time in that period - this may follow what Flynn says with regard to the Mullen-Gage act, although I don't recall anything about it - was Smith going to make any sacrifices of what he thought he ought to do as Governor for the sake of what might happen to him as a Presidential candidate. I think that was a position that he took. Certainly whenever any of us said to him, “Perhaps you'd better not do this. It might make a bad impression throughout the country or it might alienate some people who would otherwise be supporters,” he invariably said, “I don't think that has anything to do with the case. I'm Governor of New York and I've got to do the thing that's best for the State of New York.”

That was a very definite, fixed position that he had.

I remember the death of Charles F. Murphy, but I don't