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way, which is food, clothing and rent. Yet Hopkins was already seeing the destruction that that system worked in otherwise independent, self-sustaining families and was looking everywhere for more made work. He was persuading the cities of Rochester, Buffalo and others to enter into public works or semi-public works projects that would give work to the unemployed. He was persuading some of these private agencies to set up special projects that would give employment. For instance, he tried to get churches to have their interiors all cleaned and done over, their carpets cleaned and so on. He was extremely good about that. Robert Moses cooperated in the following project, although he was not one of us. Harry had persuaded the powers-that-be that this was the time to extend the parks, build playgrounds, and so on. Moses saw the point of this and provided lots of work. He had programs that cold be put into operation right away. New York was in the forefront of doing that.

That was, in general, the pattern of relief. There never was enough money. Among Hopkins's duties was the raising of money, or the stimulating of the local groups to raise money privately, although they had pretty nearly reached the end of their rope. Before 1932 was over the cities had exceeded their borrowing capacity. They couldn't get any more money for relief. There just wasn't any more to