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seem to be what she wanted. I don't think she wanted social attention and I don't think she was a social climber. I never saw a trace of that. When she was working in the Defense Department, she worked hard. She didn't go partying. So far as I can make out she was never seen at parties. Whether she was invited or not, I don't know. Surely she must have been invited. The only social engagement that I know of her going to was a luncheon that Mrs. Truman gave for the wives of Cabinet officers and all the women who were in any high public position like Mrs. Nellie Tayloe Ross, and myself when I was in the Civil Service Commission. Mrs. Rosenberg, who was Assistant Secretary of Defense, was in on that, which was natural, and she went to it. It was an obligation to go, but I never knew of her going to anything else. She was not a social butterfly and she didn't gad around. She went home to New York weekends.

She has a grown son who's married and has children now. She was very concerned about him when he was in the Army. These visitations that she made in England during the war were largely promoted by the fact that she wanted to see her son. She was very concerned about him.

She's a very curious mixture. I think she may have wanted power, but she never got any power. She never got any social recognition. She has got money. She's made money