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I keep calling that the “Horace Plan” in my mind, but that was not the man's name. I think his first name was Horace. Lubin kept saying, “It's not unlike that Horace Plan.” I had talked with him about it originally, because I had been sort of interested in this man's ideas. He was kind of dreamy, but he was a practical business man and manufacturer too. I bet Senator Ralph Flanders would know something about this. He does, unless he's forgotten it, because he was In on some of these conferences. He wasn't in on the NRA conferences, but the pre-Roosevelt conferences on unemployment.

At any rate, I then talked to the President about it. I said, “I've discovered these two things operating. As far as I know, there might be another one.” I think Donald Richbarg was working on another plan, perhaps in a different group. I've forgotten who Richberg was associated with, but he was not with the Wagner-Jacobstein group. All I recall is that I discovered not only these two groups - the Wagner group and the Tugwell group we'll call them - working, but I discovered the Richberg group working. Richberg was much more communicative when I reached him. He was communicative and told me that they were working on a plan. He would admit that they were, although curiously everybody else I approached said that they weren't and that I was mistaken. They were keeping it absolutely quiet. Richberg said they