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do use Pressman for that. Knows, and you know, that we can't stand this any longer. The Congress is up in arms. Everybody is up in arms. It can't be endured. You've got to do something.”

He kept them out at least two days longer. He kept telling me that Pressman had more influence with the men than anybody else. They began saying that the men wouldn't go back until they were assured of certain things. Hillman kept saying that Pressman was telling them that they had to go back and that he had the influence.

Well, I always felt uneasy about Pressman being there, but I was willing to believe Hillman that Pressman might have more influence with them than other people did, because he was a smooth talker. But it came to the point where there was nothing left to do but for Mr. Murphy to step in and say, “Boys, you've got to get out.” As you know, he did, and they got right out. That doesn't mean that they would have done it earlier. He had good arguments now. He had the argument, first, that they were, through the higher officers of the CIO, already in negotiation with the operating officers of the General Motors, that therefore all that they could possibly gain by their tactics had been gained, and that unless they went out of the plants, he, the Governor of the state, would say to General Motors