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things be? They'd be ruled. The first time they did something that somebody didn't like they'd be ruled. They'd be told, ‘No, you can't do that.’ They'd be put in jail. It's a dreadful idea you've got. You really don't mean that. Just think twice before you say you want a government to rule.”

By this time they were beginning to say in some circles around Washington, “What's this New Deal crowd doing anyhow? What is Rosewelt being? He's trying to run the country.” They didn't use the word “rule.” I never heard anybody but Lapham use the word “rule,” but these was beginning to be grambling about the government interfering too much with things. So I told Roosevelt that Lapham had said. He just lauched then I told him that I had gotten one employer who wanted the government to rule.

I salted that away as a very interesting tidbit, a very interesting illustration of a point of view and state of mind. It any rate, I sat there and talked with Lapham. We went into the whole question of unions. I suppose I got unusually eloquent. It was a very hot day. It was air-cooled in the Carlton Hotel. I was not averse to staying there. It was much cooler than it would be to go home. I think perhaps he was in the same state of mind.