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Jim said the same thing in 1940: “You can't possibly think of Byrnes.” He was not an appostate. An appostate is one who, having changed his religion, goes out and makes a campaign. Jimmy Byrnes strove to conceal the fact that he had ever been a Roman Catholic, or that he'd ever been an Irishman. He never referred to it in any way. I didn't know that he had been a Roman Catholic or that he was an Irishman until-- oh, I think about the time of this campaign, when it was discussed that he might be nominated for Vice President.

I remember Jim Farley saying, “Every Roman Catholic will be just horrified at that--that he deliberately left the church for social advancement and economic advancement.”

He married into one of the first families and did very well indeed for himself after that, and he never had anything more to do with the church. He just hushed it all up.

“Every Protestant will be scandalized because they'll say, ‘Why, he's really a Roman Catholic.' So,” he said, “you just can't get away with it, Mr. President, you just can't, and Jimmy's got to make up his mind to that. He's got to accept that. He can't be elected to anything without he has to get the votes of the people, and it would make a great commotion. Be very difficult to put it through.”

Well, now, Frank Walker confirmed that. I remember the President turned to me on this occasion. I happened to be sitting there. I think this is probably '40. The President