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said, “what do you think of that? Do you think that's so?”

I said, “Yes, I know it's so. I know that's absolutely sound reasoning. That's the way the Roman Catholics feel, and you know how the upstate Protestants feel. Any man who's ever been anywheres near the Roman church has got the devil's mark on him.”

That was, you know, how the ones that were so hot against Al Smith felt. It would all crop up again, and I'm sure that it would make a great deal of trouble.

There was a lot of talk, you remember, before the convention about who would run for Vice President. Was it at this stage that Ickes was so hot for William O. Douglas? Yes, he was always dragging Douglas out, William O. Douglas. He was always dragging him out. And of course, it was Tommy Corcoran who put Ickes up to that.

Of course, I personally could never see why. Douglas seems to be an interesting man, now, and his role of explorer and so forth is interesting. He seems to be greater at that than he is a politician. I never could see his greatness anywhere. He's a simple ordinary fellow with a good mind. He was very useful in the Securities and Exchange Commission, where he was a member of counsel, way down the line somewhere, you know--small job. But he was very useful, and he rose in the S.E.C. to be the head of it.