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The British Trade Unionists were very suspicious of him and didn't like him. They weren't going to put their necks into this collar. The Americans were much more ready to listen to him and join something new. Walter Shavenels--was he Dutch or Danish? I guess Danish--was the most recent head of that international organization, and had taken refuge in London during the War. But he had gone back and forth. There was some dislike of him. I mean, there was some feeling that he had been altogether too much of an internationalist during the War, and that he had not exactly communicated with the enemy, but that he had kept in touch with trade unions in Germany and in Austria and other countries allied with Germany and Italy. They felt his idea of his organization was so important that he had maintained those relations. And there was some doubt whether he was strictly honorable or not. I never felt that. I always thought he was a pretty good man, and anyhow he was very observant, and he knew what was going on and could observe it.

I think this had been spread as a rumor: “We've get to have something new. We've got to get out from under this old fuddy-dud arrangement.” Kuznetzov was peddling this idea among the labor people at San Francisco. Now, I don't remember who I sent from the Department of Labor. It's curious that I don't, isn't it? That was very important. I probably will recall who I sent, and if I call up one or two people I'll