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when there was talk of revising the Communications Act and things of that kind, but that's legislation, that isn't -- No. If I said our licenses were threatened, no. My job, among other things, was to make sure we behaved ourselves and didn't get into that kind of a jam. I was scared to death of drugs, not that drugs would, per se, jeopardize our license, but it would go to the character of the licensee, and we were in the record business, where there were an awful lot of drugs. So, I was always worried about something in that area.

Speaking of the FCC, licensing and Lyndon Johnson, I wanted to ask you some questions about your friendship with Lyndon Johnson. I know you described briefly your first meeting with him, when KTBC-TV was just licensed, and came --

Want to do that again?

No, I don't. We'll correct it in the transcript. Could you describe a little more about that first meeting with Lyndon Johnson and your friendship with him, that evolved?

Well, I can't give you the date, but it was well before World War II. At that time, I think I had the title of either Manager or Director of Audience Research. I had the exalted position of sitting in an office that had a bank-high glass wall up to just about eye level. It was just a little better than sitting out in the open, and I did have a private telephone, or, I did have a telephone, so I had pretty well arrived in the corporate hierarchy. It was at lunchtime, and I was in this little cubicle working when a pair of eyes came over the top of that glass wall and asked me what I did -- a stranger, I didn't know who it was, tall as all get out. In those days he was as thin as this lead pencil. He said he was interested in talking to somebody about “this here thing called research.” I didn't know who he was, and certainly