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not a light on anything because it was really almost wartime conditions--Occasionally you'd see someone walking by the side of the road, not knowing whether they were there to cause you trouble or whether they were just trying to find a place to stay. But it didn't phase her a bit.

The room we had in Frankfurt, the carpet was stained with blood. There had been a murder in the room. They apologized for putting us there, but it was where someone had been killed. It's a little spooky, and while she was sensitive to the fact that that was the condition, she said, you know, “If you decide you want to go into Berlin and see what's going on, you've got to put up with the kind of conditions that you have.”

[END TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE; BEGIN TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO]

On an earlier trip to the war area, we had taken a car to England and shipped it from England to the Continent, then drove in those areas where you could get gasoline. A couple times we ran short of fuel and each of us started out looking for somebody who could get us enough gasoline to drive on. She would go one direction and I would go another, it didn't bother her. She could handle French pretty well, at least to get us out of trouble--or get us into it. It was a primitive way to travel because the war had really ravaged the area, and there were ruins all around. I know we wanted to stay in Bonn one night. One of us had phone ahead and found someplace where we could stay, but we were on the other side of the river. When we got to the place where there was a hand-drawn ferry, just a boat on which you could put a car, maybe there was room for half a dozen people in addition to the car and that was all. You pulled a rope across the Rhine, to go from one side to the other, and we got there about 8:30, as I recall, maybe a little earlier, but dark was coming and the man said,