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didn't object to what I did. She was very strong when I took the Red Cross, and that was really a miserable chore for her. She had been in the Red Cross during the war. She had worked here in New York as a volunteer and had respect for the program and the principals, but very little respect for the way it was administered. I think she saw some of the same people in the volunteers that we had to face once a year at the conventions, etc. But she was a charming first lady of the Red Cross, and I think was glad I did it, because it took me totally away from what I had been doing, gave me every reason to break with the friends I had. Not break with them in the sense that there was any rend, but it was a new set of muscles. I think she was liked by the women and the wives who were on the board of governors; I think they could relate to her and she could relate to them. She didn't go into the devastated areas, the flood-relief areas or things of that kind. She didn't refuse to go, but it just didn't make any sense to drag her into those places. She never resisted going to the conventions or anything of that kind, and those were just horrible, burdensome things to go through because you've got 3,000 chapters, everybody's giving a dinner or something at the convention, and you just run your legs off going back and forth.

END TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO; BEGIN TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE

You mentioned once to me that you had thought about building a home in Switzerland when you retired.

Yes. We went to Switzerland and toured everything from Geneva to Zurich, looking for suitable places. I engaged an architect in Zurich to think in terms of modifying a couple of places, old places that were beautiful landmarks but needed to be modernized. She said to me at one time (and maybe I've said this), “Unless you're prepared to come and live here, let's