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concerned. Bristol Meyers was on of the companies that I wrote. And the man who was the advertising man there I later knew when I came to New York. He gave me a lot of interesting anecdotes and so forth about the experience of using radio. But that was my -- I touched radio at that time and then didn't touch it again, because in my senior year, when I came back and decided to take my undergraduate degree, which had been interrupted by this flirting with going to medical school -- In my junior year as a result of the year book, I received an invitation from N.W. Ayer and Sons in Philadelphia to consider coming to work for them as a junior art director. And I shoved it aside because at that point I was still going to be in medical school. But then when the medical school thing faded, I looked seriously at the invitation to come to Philadelphia and go to work as a young art director. I did that. I went over to see them. I got the job. They said they'd start me in the fall of that year, which was the fall of '29. I was going to Europe. And they wanted me to go to--certain things they wanted me to see --

Let me just change the tape here.

(END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE; BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE)

So they wanted you to go to Europe -- as part of your training?

Well, as part of a combination of hoping I could go and their interest in having me go. And the man who had hired me, or who was going to hire me when I came back -- his name was Charles Coynier, I guess. The middle initial was T. as in Tom. And I think he spelled it C.o.y.n.i.e.r.--I believe. But he was the art director at N.W. Ayer.