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Was for the experiment I wanted to do.

Oh, I see.

By this time, the more I talked about the shortcomings of the FCC information, the more Kesten was interested in fanning the fires of investigation. Because if we could show that the FCC was lax in what it was doing, this would make us a more important factor in the industry. And audience research at that time was not only not known, but nobody trusted it. They just didn't understand about sampling. They didn't understand about questionnaires and interviewing and so forth. This is in the days of the Literary Digest presidential polls and you know how wrong they were when the people who responded weren't typical of the people who didn't respond. And I was involved in [Elmo] Roper's first polling, so this was stuff that I not only enjoyed but I think I understood pretty well at that time.

So I went down -- or we went down -- and I went to the place where I was to go -- to the FCC. It was an open room, must have been thirty or forty desks. Having driven down during the daytime, I got there about three-thirty. And when I went to the place I was supposed to go, I was told, “We close at four o'clock. You'll have to come back tomorrow.” Tomorrow was Saturday and I don't believe I told CBS I was driving down. I just said I was going down on Friday. And if I had gone by train, I would have been there in time to get in. They were literally turning out the lights in this room at three-thirty in the afternoon.

And I said, “Gee, I came all the way down to see this material.”