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the visual picture of the reporter with scenes from the subject area of the discussion or the report.

But there are more people in the production side who want movement on the screen more than a thoughtful presentation.

Two extremes, I suppose, on the evening news would be represented by the “MacNeil Lehrer Report” on the one hand, and, let's say, Dan Rather on the other. I think Rather has almost very little direct reporting, of Rather occupying the screen, and a lot of action pictures behind his voice. [Robert] MacNeil and [Jim] Lehrer are almost full front and very seldom do you have the visuals. I'm not sure that that's by design as much as it's by the economics -- the forces flowing out of the economics of the two organizations. Public broadcasting doesn't have the kind of news gathering organization that CBS or NBC will have.

But would that kind of programming be even possible now on one of the major networks?

The kind of thing that Thirteen does?

Yes.

Well, sure, it's possible. I doubt that it would have much audience, because the audience for the most part is a picture- oriented audience.

I think we've gone too far in that direction. I'm a lone voice on that particular point. But if you think in terms of your own life, or you think in terms of the things that go on in the world