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Around that time.

Well, what did the loyalty oath consist of, as you recall?

In a sense a pledge of allegiance, and a declaration that you were not and had not been a member of the Communist Party and so forth. I don't even have a copy of the form, I don't know where I could put my hands on a copy of it now. This is a chapter in my life that I wish I could expunge in some way. I'm not proud of it and yet as I relive that in thinking about it, at the time we all thought that we had no alternative but to do it. In fact, Murrow participated in the decision to institute the loyalty oath program.

Interesting.

I don't think he was any happier about it than I was.

He was actually -- “Counter Attack” actually went after Murrow at one point later.

What?

[William] Shirer.

Shirer was a victim of the same thing. He didn't go off the air because of “Counter Attack” or any of that kind of thing. He went off the air because of the decision that he just wasn't doing the kind of analysis and reporting that he started out doing. But that's another