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Okay.

But that isn't to say that clusters didn't form after they got there because --

Right. That was my next question. Did they always hold up?

Sure.

Well, speaking of associations of bright people, could we talk about the Rand Corporation a little bit? You were, I think, trustee from 1957 on to 1978 and Chair from 1961 to '67, for the benefit of those listening to this tape.

Rowan Gaither, who had been head of the Ford Foundation, was one of the men who started RAND. And the letters R.A.N.D. stood for “research and development.” This grew out of wartime work that was done essentially for the Air Force. And it was funded through a contract, I believe, to Lockheed. No. Maybe it was McDonnell Douglas -- one of the aircraft --

Oh. So it wasn't funded at all by the government.

As RAND?

Yes.