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I gave him some examples in the company. I said there were a couple of officers whose contracts -- they weren't under contract -- but whose jobs I would buy out, knowing full well that I didn't want to throw them to the wolves without compensation. I would pay them not to work rather than have them. I thought they were dragging their feet when they should be working very hard. He was offended by that, because I think he thought I was perhaps pointing the finger at him. I wasn't because it never occurred to me. When he then said, What should he do? I said, I guess it depends a little bit on what you want to do. What will you do if you retire? I never answered whether he should retire. I was glad I didn't have to. As it turned out, he then said -- which he had said to me on two other occasions -- “I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't come into the office.” That's a hell of an admission. At least I thought it was. I had ten things I would do if I didn't have to come into the office.

Obviously, from your resume.

But he made it clear that he didn't want to retire at that time. He then told me that a man that I had working for me as a consultant had come into see him and had told him that he should get out and make me the chief executive officer and not interfere with the growth of the company. What he was referring to -- and this is a long way around to your question about financial relations -- there were things that I wanted to do in the way of expanding that Bill didn't feel comfortable with. I thought that we should have been in the receiver manufacturing business. As the world has evolved and as the Japanese have moved into it, he was right but not for those reasons. I saw us building an audience for television. I saw RCA doing the same thing -- in building a market for its television sets. We were bleeding to death to put the programs on and had no way to recoup any money. I thought that we were in the software side of music, we were in the software side of programming, and