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there was insufficient time to get the votes to do a permanent change in the law, and if I got a temporary lifting of the rule for that particular election, that's the way we could get on with the idea of having the debates. Now, in the course of lining up votes, I got no support from anybody really in the Senate for what I wanted. So I had to walk up and down the halls of the Senate Office Building buttonholing and meeting senators, trying to persuade them to support the temporary resolution. And one of the things I ran into was: Well, how do you know these candidates will debate? And a perfectly --

END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO; BEGIN TAPE TWO SIDE ONE

Okay.

I had gone up and down the halls of the Senate office Building, keeping appointments that I could make with Senators to enlist their support, or interest in the idea of having debates, and had encountered on the part of some of the senators, the very good question of how do you know that the candidates want to debate? That caused me to go back and see the candidates, and see how they felt about it.

I went to see Nixon who was then -- This was the first -- yes, I went to see Nixon. I had an appointment to see him. And he was in conference and his administrative assistant came out to tell me that he was tied up, and was going to be tied up a little while, could he help me? And I said, “Sure, I'll tell you what I want to ask him” -- because you can get so much work done down there if you really take the administrative aides into your confidence and let them help you, or at least you find out where the guy stands on things. And I can't think of the man, he later ran for governor in California and was later in the Senate and was in Nixon's