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an idea that CBS would promote. If the other networks wanted to do it, fine, but this was a CBS idea.

Sol [Salmon] Haas was his name, one of the more thoughtful affiliates. I should say, he didn't come out of broadcasting, he came out of print journalism, in part, and was a more thoughtful, editorial type than many of the affiliates. Most of the affiliates came out of either the advertising side or the engineering side. They did not come out of news or programming.

Anyway, even in '56, although I think I made the talk in '54, but at that time, anyway, they weren't supportive. I had, by all odds, a majority of the affiliates with me but the fact that some of them didn't grab the idea troubled me, because I didn't want to go forward with something that wasn't -- I knew I was in enough trouble with the government, putting forth the idea; I certainly didn't want to go forward with it if the stations said, “We won't carry it.” It didn't make any difference, there were no takers in '56 for the idea. Then I thought, “Well, in '60, we're going to start even, because there will be no incumbent, under the two-term situation. Eisenhower can't run to succeed himself, Stevenson will have burned out by that time, so there's a chance I might get it in '60.” I think the record of the trade press will show that every time I showed up to lecture on a speaking platform, my subject was either opening the courts to the cameras, or debates. I was sort of Johnny- One-Note. In fact, I was kidded about it, that all I could talk about were these “God- damned debates.”

But, in '60, there was a hearing about the networks giving free time to the two parties, to use as they saw fit; that the cost of campaigning was onerous, and, after all, this was the