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off the Eisenhower ticket. What was the name of that speech? It was named for the dog. [Checkers] But, sure, that saved his neck.

Yes, so he had had a really successful experience.

So, I went over, then, to see Johnson, who was a friend of mine, because he had a station that was affiliated with CBS. Maybe I covered that earlier.

You did, yes.

So, I could walk into his office, and if he was free his secretary would let me stick my head in. So, I stuck my head in, she said what did I want? I said I wanted to see the senator, if he was free. She said, “Go on, he's got somebody with him, but go on in.” So, I went in, and I could see the back of the person but I didn't recognize the man from the back. Johnson saw me and said, “What the so-and-so do you want?” I said, “Oh, I just came by to talk a little bit about the debates, the debate legislation.” He said, “You know how I feel about debates,” and I did know how he felt.

How did he feel?

Oh, he was unalterably opposed.

What were his reasons?

He didn't give reasons. He just said, “I don't want them.” He thundered that he