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Fortune, and we were--he had done reasonably well on Fortune--Fortune tended to be a training ground for publishers. They had an awful lot of them. On Time, I don't know whether the job went to his head, or whether he felt that he was succeeding to his father's position, or whether the bottle had gotten to him. But within a very short time it became obvious that we had made a bad mistake, and that we would have to correct it. There was some dreadful scene at a Time's sales convention, when he behaved himself very poorly under the influence of. And we finally dreamt up--you've got to note that the image of father Luce, Henry R. Luce, is still very much with us, and you're dealing with his son. And even though Henry Luce is dead, he is still saying: “Well, we've got to do the best we can by this boy”--who's no longer a boy, he is a middle-aged man. Anyway, so--he finally removed him and created a job that I think he partly dreamt up, of creating a small venture-capital operation, which he was to run.

That turned out to be another bad idea--one of the many bad ones that I've had, or allowed--because it turned out that there wasn't anybody to supervise the venture capital operation, or if there was, it would have to be Shepley or myself, and that was wasting incredible amount of time. To get to be sufficiently expert to make a judgment about a venture capital thing in which there was only 500,000 dollars, that was ridiculous. Anyway, with great pain we removed Hank Luce, and then the question was whether Ralph Davidson or Jack Meyers should take over. Ralph had been trained abroad and then had been associate publisher and had to endure the difficult reign of Hank Luce. The alternative was John Meyers, who I think was