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sales director then. But we finally, after much weighing, finally settled on Davidson. And Ralph really stayed with--was a partner with Henry Grunwald for six years, and that turned out to be a pretty successful marriage.

Henry is not the easiest person in the world--as a matter of fact, he's the worst conversationalist that I know of. He's exactly the contrary of Harry Luce. If you sit down to lunch with Henry Grunwald and you say, “Hello, how are you?” and he says, “Fine, how are you?”--and then if you don't say anything, there's an endless silence [laughter]. And then you sort of, you start up on one subject, and that goes for a while, and then it dies, and you better start up on another one. It's very strange. Here is this very intellectual, very intelligent man, very knowledgeable man, on all subjects--loves to make speeches--but I guess an audience of one is just not enough for him.

Anyway, those two got on quite well, and Time went through a reasonably successful period. Henry was moved up in '77 to be--

The editor-in--no.

No, he wouldn't be editor-in-chief; he was to be I forget what the title was--

I don't think it's there.

No. We can fill it in, but it was I think editorial director. He was moved up--I'm trying to think when Ralph Graves was