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making the point that packaging the product is just as important as the words that go into it. At Sports Illustrated, he had shown himself very adapt at layout, pictures in particular--particularly the use of color pictures. So after he'd been there two or three years, it came down to a choice between Ray Cave and Jason McManus. Jason McManus was a good deal younger, very pleasant, very capable, good writer, good editor, a lot of experience. And they--I'm trying to see whether it's possible to characterize why he was chosen--I have trouble doing it. But a strange relationship occurred there. He and Jason got on fine--

Ray Cave and Jason.

Yes, Ray Cave and Jason. And they both realized that they were in the race for the managing editorship. And they made a pact: they said, “one or the other of us is going to get it, and the guy who doesn't get it is going to stick along and be as helpful and useful as possible.” And by God, they did it. When Ray got it, Jason was number two man, and fulfilled the promise in full. Quite an unusual circumstance. Usually, when you have to choose between two people, you have to loose one. When we chose Grunwald, Graves left two years later--very diplomatically, and just the way Graves would do it. He didn't leave a month later, but clearly he left two years later because there wasn't a future for him there. But Jason and Ray Cave did work together very well, and indeed, it all worked out so well that six, seven years later, Ray Cave moved up to be editorial director, under Henry, and Jason McMenus became the