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amusing because I go from the one to the other in half an hour, and I'm playing exactly the same role in both instances. We've had a change of management there, and I was trying to--I was just going over to see the person who's now become the chief operating guy there. A twenty-nine year old who strangely enough is a Republican, and is all of twenty-nine and is just smart as a whip, Art Kropp.

The man who ran it for the last seven years, and will continue for another year or so, is Tony Podesta. It's now become a big organization. It started with practically nothing. It now has a budget of, about eight or ten million dollars, and sixty, seventy employees. So it has to be run more professionally maybe than it was before.

You were on the board?

I'm on the board and I'm chairman of the executive committee. There are a lot of ministers on the board; non fundamentalist ministers, middle of the road ministers: Chuck Bergstrom a Lutheran, John Buchanan a ex-minister, Baptist, who was also a congressman from Alabama. He got thrown out by the fundamentalists as a congressman. It's a very interesting mix of people. Then, of course, Norman Lear is the great show man of them all. So, when we put on extravaganza you can be sure that the extravaganza will be well produced.

What are some of the highlights of your experience with it in the last four years? What have been-?