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didn't seem to be able to disrupt. And that was my first encounter with, “Wow, if they can keep on doing this there isn't a chance in the world of us ever winning.” Because in the long they'll outlast us.

Then Nixon got elected and there was some considerable pro-Nixon feeling among the top echelons.

Yes, when you said Time Inc. was for Nixon I take it he was endorsed in Life Magazine?

Yes.

And when you say Time Inc. was for Nixon, who made the decision? Was it Donovan? You?

I think I remember. We, Donovan made it but it was not a very enthusiastic pro-Nixon feeling. And then the Vietnam thing got worse.

You just said that there was a lot of support upper echelon for Nixon.

Yeah, you mean who? I guess Otto was for-

Feuerbringer.

Feuerbringer, yeah. I think Jim Shepley was a Nixonite.