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gentle persuasion, logical but gentle. He never raises his voice.

What people do you think he's influenced in an important way?

Just about everybody he's touched. All these people that I know who are involved in the Coalition, or Common Cause, or you name it, have been vastly influenced. I work with Dave Cohen on People for the American Way and he used to be head of Common Cause. He followed Gardner as head of Common Cause and was clearly a disciple of the man. He got disciples everywhere. Really quite extraordinary. And all of it in such a low key that very few people are aware of how much influence he's had.

What about Rouse? Describe Rouse.

Rouse is small, slightly on the heavy side, baldish, with an owlish face. He's amusing, incredibly knowledgeable and when he's on the podium he sounds more like a preacher than a speaker. You can practically feel God is telling him to tell you to go out and do this and that. He's also a charming, lovely person. He was a very successful business man. He created the city of Columbia in Maryland, the one between Washington and Baltimore, which was one of the biggest gambles of all time. Just to go out