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and say, “I'm going to create a city that will have rich and poor. That will have jobs and open space, and that will be environmentally perfect.” And he's done it. He's done it. And in Enterprise he is by the far the leading light. In fact, the real problem to Enterprise is that if something happened to Jim Rouse there isn't anybody who could fill his shoes. He is so totally dedicated to his proposition that I sometimes believe that he doesn't even think of anything else, or remember to eat, or drink. He's got a small, very devoted, and dedicated staff. And incidentally he had a brilliant idea. And that was that he has created within Enterprise a Rouse II, another company like the Rouse Company that goes in for development and which ultimately will help support the foundation. Any profit it makes will go directly into the foundation, you see. It is a for profit developer, but its profits do not go into anybody's pockets except the foundation.

O.K., what about other people on your list that you have met through the years?

Well, I know Bob McNamara wall through Brookings, an extraordinary mind, steel trap. Great comprehension of the issues that face us. Still a powerful influence on a lot of people just because of his brain power. I don't know where to go, you know, Doug Dillon is a friend of mine and so is Brook Astor. There's not a one of them that isn't