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have any relaxed contemplative discussions. I'm trying to remember. It seems to me I went to City Hall and Gracie Mansion quite often. I guess I was there more sort of as a public personality and supporter of his, which I was, than anything else. The mayor of New York is a very strange profession. You can not help but be a minority mayor in New York City. Because in-

Unless you're black.

Even the blacks are a minority. There is no majority. If you're a WASP you're a disappearing species. But the incredible thing about the City is that today there are as many immigrants, i.e. people who are not born in this country, in New York City, as a percentage, as there were a hundred years ago when the Italians were coming, or a hundred and fifty years ago when the Irish were coming. It's always been that way. It's always a somewhat unmanageable city because it isn't cohesive. Lindsay was a most visible minority in the sense that Koch represents more in New York City because he's Jewish than Lindsay did because he's a WASP. You're right about blacks not being represented.

Did you know Beame?

Yeah. When he was elected mayor we had him to dinner here. And I sat next to Mrs. Beame, who was really a nice momma. You really had no idea of how small Beame is. You know, he could easily walk under a table. He had absolutely no notion of what it