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Jones, oh yeah I know-

Hold on a second.

[End of tape one, side two.]

[Beginning of tape two, side one.]

I don't know what it means that you don't remember them. However, I guess that organizations have a certain life of their own, and they keep rolling along. And it would be very difficult to track the impact of most CEO's, in part because well, with normally the short tenure that they have, the good or bad that they have done may not be visible until he's retired and somebody else has taken over who may get the benefit what his predecessor brilliantly thought of, or pay the price of a bad policy that his predecessor had initiated. And of course, it also means that the CEO is not as important as journalism makes him out to be, because the CEO is totally dependent upon a whole bunch of people around him who essentially guide and shepherd him through most of troubles and obstacles that there are. And some of them have been around a long time. Some continue after CEO has retired as executive vice presidents or something. So that the big corporation is really not run by one person. It's really run by a lot of people.

And no exceptions stand out in your mind of-