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do the two at the same time. I can't really be useful to you and I don't know anything about the theatre.” Well, anyway, he conned me into it. “Well, we need your name.” Anybody who's got their wits about him should know better than to accept that because once they got your name they got you. [laughter]

That was in October of 1984?

I guess so. So the first thing to do was to try to get an artistic director, or an artistic team. And he'd been working very hard at this with the help of Anna Crouse who is the widow of Lindsay Crouse? I forget, anyway. She does know everything about the theatre. And they interviewed people from all over the world. And it took a good while. And they were zeroing in on a team consisting of Greg Mosher who ran that theatre in Chicago, and Bernie Gersten who's-

The Goodman Theatre?

Mosher was at the Goodman Theatre. Bernie Gersten as executive producer. At that very moment Marty Segal calls me and says, “Well, the situation is impossible. Lincoln Center hasn't lived up to it's promises.”

The Theatre?

Lincoln Center Theatre, I'm sorry, “has not lived up to