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right way?” He and I both shared one common belief, and shared it very fervently, and totally unsuccessfully, namely, we both felt that magazines, or most of them, should have not just a managing editor who edited the magazine on a week to week basis, but also an editor who would think about where the magazine was going, and would plan the future, and would be sort of the more cerebral type. Well, we tried it on Life, we tried it on Time. I forget whether we ever tried it on Fortune. Somehow it never worked, and it always ended up with the managing editor in total control of everything, which was a shame because the managing editor had so much to do just editing each issue that it was very difficult for him to do a lot of forward thinking. So, that was one that he and I lost together.

He was upset[?], but he was also a very disciplined person. I suppose the best proof of his discipline is that when he retired and tired the job over to Hedley Donovan, who had been editorial director before that, and then became the Editor in chief, Harry never interfered with operations. He would make his comments after the fact, criticisms, suggestions, and what have you, but he did not interfere with operations. That's a very difficult thing if you've been running a company, a bunch of publications for, what was it then? It was over forty years. He started in 1923, and he retired in 1963. Yes, forty years. To be able to just sort of turn off and allow your successor to do the job the way he saw fit shows very considerable discipline. I also think, I can't say that he had any control over it. But in a sense he died exactly at the right time, on the right day. 1967. We'd been through a period of great growth on the country, great expansion of the company. Things were,