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about the 1972. 1972--it was just really that McGovern seemed like such a poor candidate. Two years later, of course, we regretted that. [laughs] 1972 was Nixon-McGovern--

Do you recall, though, that after--I forgot whether it was Time or LIFE, but somebody came out, one of the magazines came out for Nixon--that there was a big petition from a lot of the editorial people saying, “We don't agree with this, we're pro-McGovern.” Do you recall that?

Yes. Yes.

Any comments on that?

No. At various times, employees have expressed themselves on a whole variety of issues, and you just sort of shrug.

Let's stay on this just for a minute. What about--you were talking about major changes. What about the turn in LIFE in its view on the Vietnam War? Was that something that was an ongoing discussion between you and Donovan?

Oh, yes. It was an ongoing discussion not just between Donovan and myself--everybody was involved in that one. It was an ongoing discussion even in terms of the morale of the staff, because it was as divisive, if not more, an issue than was isolationism versus interventionism in 1940. It was that kind of a--it had that