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know--they were both anti-Acheson and

We were in the Cold War period. We were in a political era, and there were cross-currents in Harry's mind as there are cross-currents in most people's minds on quite a lot of subjects. It's very rare that you're all, all one-way on a subject, and usually when you are all one-way, it's not that good a way. Yes, there were very serious cross-currents there, in Harry's mind, and I think it took him a lot of time before he finally realized' that McCarthy was somebody who should go.

Do you recall him pressuring the editors on this whole question of, you know--initially, let's say, “go easy on McCarthy because there's some truth in what he said?”

No, I don't recall it.

Okay. How do you think it felt for him to be in the situation of being accused of harboring communists and attacked--apparently Time was attacked by Walter Winchell. It was attacked by an anti-communist newsletter called Counterattack, and it was definitely attacked by McCarthy himself after a Time cover piece in 1951, whose title had read, “Demagogue McCarthy: Does He Deserve Well of the Republic?” As you remember, there was a whole fuss later on. Apparently, McCarthy accused that article, in addition to other things, of inaccuracy vis-a-vis a man named Gustavo Duran.