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What do you remember about his feelings about Stevenson?

He considered him mushy. He considered him to be--to have no clear ideas about the world. He had a very low opinion of Stevenson.

Did he ever admit or state--did he ever feel that the coverage of those two campaigns, 1952 and 1956, was in any way biased? Or was he proud that it was biased, [laughs] you know what I mean?

No, I think he felt that it was just about right. Quite a few people didn't, but I don't think it bothered him.

Was there any tension at all between Luce and any of the key editorial people over this whole question, not just necessarily the Stevenson campaigns, but of the publications and political bias--even not just in the editorials but in the reporting?

Oh, sure.

Describe that.

It goes back to Teddy White in China. It goes on through the Stevenson--the Stevenson campaign was very much, the feeling was very strong in the staff and at upper levels of the staff that publications were being unkind or unfair to Stevenson. As a matter of fact, I think Matthews--Matthews?