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Rome from 1953 to 1956?

Well, the major time was in the 1940s and early 1950s. I can't remember anything much in the 1960s along these lines. Of course, he “retired” in 1963. Well, he really did retire in 1963. Donovan had taken over a lot of his responsibility when he became editorial director, which was--what?--1960. I'm trying to think what the big issues were in the 1960s. I guess--

Vietnam!

Well--

Bay of Pigs!

Bay of Pigs was 1960s?

Kennedy.

No. no, no. Bay of--oh, I'm sorry. Cuba! I beg your pardon--you said Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, and I tried to place Bay of Pigs in Vietnam. It didn't fit. [laughter]

Well, I think we, our attitude there--or his attitude there--was more “what terrible management” rather than whether it was right or wrong to do it. How mismanaged this thing was. He was a great admirer of Kennedy, so, you know.