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and all their luggage and so on and so on--it was fantastic. Harry went on the first two of these--

These clearly were either big advertisers or potential advertisers--their companies. Is that right?

Yes. That's right! [laughter] You guessed it--how did you guess it?

But what do you recall of those first two news tours that you went on?

I remember Harry was very active in--I think the first one was the one that ended up in--no, it started in Russia, and then we went through all the Eastern countries, European Eastern countries. Harry was very active in sort of leading that. And that again was something that he really enjoyed, being in the middle of everything.

Circus master.

Yes, that's right. Well, circus master and participant. Strangely enough, he didn't try to dominate those things. He was dominant in the office, but he was not dominant outside. But--oh, he had great pleasure in seeing Tito and Khrushchev--all those things.

What else do I remember about him? I never remember his having any fun. His idea of fun was having a big dinner for Time Inc.ers and making a speech, I think.