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was clearly involved in everybody's mind, whether they admitted it or not.

But if I understood you correctly, you said that in a way you kept waiting for Gart to take the reins and--

No, I kept waiting for Shepley.

Shepley! Oh, I see.

No, no. Gart was the sort of “the working editor”. I'm talking about someone--a very forceful person, who would go out and sell the idea and be imaginative about it in an overall sense, in a real publisher-editor sense.

I see.

And Shepley had all those qualities. He was imaginative, he was a driver--

Did you ask him to do that?

I kept nudging him and nudging him and nudging him. And “oh, yes”--you know: “I'm doing it, I'm doing it. I'm spending two days a week there.” And I would say: “Well, it would take more than two days a week.”