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more or less, then way up high was the UHF -- ultra-high frequency. The FCC, largely because of Plotkin, wanted to get a large distribution of UHF stations, so they put them in markets with these, because they knew people would have to get a signal, and they'd reach for the UHF and gradually bring the UHF into popularity. I was encouraged, on the behalf of CBS, to get into the UHF business because the FCC wanted as many UHF stations licensed as possible. They were a dime a dozen. Now that's no longer true, because today with Cable, if you have a UHF, the program schedule is reproduced on the cable and you don't have to depend on the UHF signal. But, we at CBS went into Milwaukee and into Hartford, two strong, single, VHF markets, turned our back on the VHF and started our own UHF in an effort to cause UHF to take off, and we lost our shirts in those markets. But, that's why that strange situation existed. It wasn't anything Johnson did; [Robert] Caro just didn't know what he was talking about.

No, actually I was referring to Robert Dallek's new book called Lone Star Rising. But, actually, as I think about it, it would be nice for you to be able to look at a few pages where he discusses this, so we're both responding to the same text. He goes on to talk about Texas Broadcasting's purchase of KANG in Waco. I don't know if you're familiar with that--

No, I'm not.

Well, that's another -- We can follow up on that subject. He was trying to make the general point, I think, that it was unusual that Austin, given that even in Corpus Christi, I think, they were allocated, in the early fifties, two VHF stations, and by '59 they had a third VHF, but it was an unusual thing that Austin should only have one VHF.