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doubt in my mind, that Salant was as strong as we would find.

Paley had even tried to get two or three other people to come in. One of them was--now it's all coming back. Paley was down in--

Do you want to move your chair around, so you're not in the sun?

No, it's all right. The sun won't stay there that long. Paley was down at Jamaica or someplace, where he had a house, and he thought that we should get somebody from Time magazine. Dick [Richard M.] Clurman, who was then the head of correspondents for Time and had, from time to time, gone out of his way, I think, to write Paley congratulatory notes and things that--I thought he was trying to snuggle up. And Paley had told me some of the things.

But when this came up, he said: “What about getting Clurman?” He's available.

I said: gee, I didn't think he was.

He said: “Yes, he's available.” Which meant to me that Clurman, no fool he, had seen what was going on and took advantage of the opportunity to get in touch with Paley and say, “Hey--” Or if Dick didn't do it himself, he did it through Walter [N.] Thayer, who was a very good friend of Paley's and socially connected with Clurman.

So I wasn't surprised at that, and I said I just thought we weren't that destitute or that desperate, and we should work things out inside the family. We had a very rich cadre of