Session: 1234567891011121314151617         Page 585586587588589590591592593594595596597598599600601602603604605606607608609610611612613614615616617618619620621622623624625626627 of 755

Could you tell us a little bit about that? It's a really fascinating story.

I've forgotten now how I--I guess I was on one of the committees looking at some of the possible investments, and a lot of the information was put together in a book. We met and went up into the Bronx where the shop was and over into Brooklyn, where there was a shop, and saw the operation. Met the people. It was a very impressive operation.

There was no hesitation on the part of the board or the committee to make the investment, but the main relationship was with--and I can't even think of the man's name now, but he's in the group.

George Greenberg?

Yes. He and Carl Hess became very close friends. But, as the book reports, we sold out and it's turned over several times since then. But if you'll recall, in the group itself was Ralph Lazarus, who at that time was head of Federated Department Stores. So we had expertise to turn to.

Taking that deal as an example, how exactly does a purchase in, for lack of a better word, a takeover--which it really isn't; that's the wrong word. How does it work when AEA comes in? Are the management of the company as it exists usually retained?

Oh, absolutely. In fact--

Could you explain that a little bit?