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Well, he's a very cultured, very bright, very special kind of guy. A Dartmouth graduate. He's on the board, I think, of Rockefeller University. I only mention these things, because he's interested in things other than business. Not a banker. Not a lawyer. He's a deal-maker really.

I don't see a lot of him. I would count Carl a friend, and I'm sure he would count me one, but we're not--we don't travel together or anything of that kind. In fact, I've never traveled-- there's only one person in business that I ever traveled with. Some people do a lot more of that. We just never did it. Never belonged to a country club and never indulged in that kind of a life.

Carl Hess doesn't, either. He's just a very interested and interesting guy. He's well- connected with banks--because he's borrowed a lot of money for AEA--and has connections all over the world, as a result of the AEA operation. We've got some people in the AEA group from Saudi Arabia--places of that kind--in part because they have a lot of liquid money and also because they can see things that might be acquired that we wouldn't see.

That's another thing that AEA has in each one of its members--eyes and ears of a guy or of individuals who have come up in their own companies and have had to look for acquisitions and so forth. Well, once you've done that, you can spot things and say to AEA, “Here's something that might be available.” So there's motivation that you don't buy; you get it simply by the route of investment and making money out of the investment.

Carl Hess is a very quiet, very buttoned-up individual--never, to the best of my knowledge-- stepped off into a deal without having researched it to the point where you think maybe the